Maximizing Local Restaurant Marketing for Operators & Franchisees With Brett Campbell (Ep 215)

publication date: Jul 30, 2024
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author/source: Jaime Oikle with Brett Campbell

local marketing podcast

 

Thriving in this competitive landscape can be quite difficult for you to navigate your restaurant into. Imagine an Amazon experience specifically for local marketing vendors! Franchisees & Independents can browse a diverse marketplace, selecting the tactics that best target their audience. Join Jaime Oikle and Brett Campbell, the Co-Founder and CMO at Loma, to explore the challenges faced by restaurant marketing teams, particularly in the fast-paced world of franchise operations. Brett discusses the unique needs of local marketing for restaurants. It’s time to stop wasting time creating plans, negotiating with vendors, and tracking results. Join Jaime and Brett and see how Loma takes care of everything, from execution to providing valuable data to measure your success.

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I have a great episode for you with Brett Campbell, co-founder and CMO at LOMA, which is a platform to help restaurants with local marketing. I always love talking about marketing. I'm looking forward to this. Brett, welcome. Tell me a little bit about your background and the company. We'll dig in from there.

Jaime, thanks for having me. I've been in the restaurant QSR space for almost 30 years now and have had the chance to work with multiple organizations of different sizes. I've gotten to understand the larger groups, multi-unit groups like Papa John's, for example, with 5,000 units, down to multi-unit groups that have 200 or fewer units, understanding the diversity and the different needs based on the size of the brand.

I also have been a franchisee. I did a short stint as a franchisee so I understand that side of the business as well. All of that is to create a platform that helps marketers that are in that space. That's what LOMA was created to do, and leveraging that experience. Now, we have a product that we launched about two months ago that we're super excited about.

That part I didn't know. We chatted a little bit, but I didn't realize it was so new. Tell me about going from the systematized background of franchises to knowing about brands. I'm assuming that a lot of the mentality is understanding that systems need to be in place. You guys are delivering a marketing system. Is that the derivation?

Yeah. My experience has been across the board from a marketing capacity. I understand the creative side and the brand side, but I spent a lot of my time in the field marketing side where you're the connection between the corporate marketing team and the franchisee. What happens in that space is there are a lot of different tools that are used in each of those different categories.

However, field marketing has zero tools. Using that as a sounding board or jumping or starting-off place, we created the LOMA platform to help the local store marketers drive success, sales, and awareness to the local units in executing local store marketing activities inside of their immediate trade area. I can go into the details of the tool and what that looks like.

Overall, having that background of understanding the various disciplines and then choosing the field marketing discipline as where I wanted to live most of my career, and then understanding the different tools. If you think about it from a digital perspective, you have agencies that are helping buy digital. From a loyalty perspective, you've got platforms like Punch that help manage your loyalty programs.

From a creative perspective, you've got project management tools like Monday or Asana, for example. However, in the field marketing space, there is nothing that helps you. You leverage Excel for the most part. You create flow charts and marketing plans in Excel. You try to communicate to franchisees, “Here's a plan you might want to use to help you drive sales and you send it to them in Excel.” There's a lack of tools in that space and that's where LOMA was founded.

Let's go to a couple of definitions because I want to define things a little bit more. When you say local store marketing, when you say field marketing, what are some more deep ways to understand that stuff?

Field Marketing

Field marketing is a discipline inside of the marketing department that focuses on your liaison between the corporate marketing team, the brand, and the field, so the franchisees. You are trying to communicate what is happening from a brand perspective. There are new creative and new promotions. You're making sure that's executed at the local level, depending upon the size of the brand, there are different setups.

Larger brands will have three layers. You have a national advertising or system-wide advertising layer. You can then have co-ops where locations will form a co-op to pool their dollars to have more efficiency and buy media at the market level, and then you have the marketing that needs to happen in the trade area, right around the individual location.

Field marketing helps manage all three of those layers. A communication perspective from what's happening system-wide to make sure the franchisees are informed. Usually, field marketing teams execute all the media or manage the agencies who might be buying the media at the market level, communicating that back to the franchisees that are involved at that market level, and helping individual franchisees at the local trade area level.

 

Field marketing helps edge all three layers: systemwide advertising, co-ops, and the market level.

 

Having one-on-one conversations, understanding maybe some of the dynamics that are happening around that location. It could be the site isn't a very good spot. It could be there's construction happening and so sales are down. It could be a competition that has come into the marketplace, and so trying to create a competitive marketing plan. You take a one-on-one approach when you're talking to franchisees about how to specifically help them in that location.

That's the space that LOMA lives in. It’s going down to that individual location and trying to create a diversified marketing plan for that specific location. What we've done is we've created a platform that is almost like an Amazon marketing shopping experience where a franchisee can come in or an actual marketing team can come into the platform. Let's take the franchisee for example. He or she comes into the platform.

It's an Amazon-like shopping experience where they go into our marketplace and it's got a laundry list of local marketing vendors, so vendors that are focused on driving sales in the local trade area. It could be vendors that do phone outreach to schools and say, “We're right around the corner. We'd love to send you some certificates to give to the kids as rewards, etc.” You've also got vendors that reach out directly to businesses.

Let’s say you're trying to push maybe large orders or catering. They can talk to businesses. “Do you do catering?” “Yes, we do.” “Great, we'd love to get your information and send you more information from the brand.” You've got print or door-to-door direct mail vendors in this marketplace. We've got fundraising vendors in the marketplace. They're all focused on schools and the community. It's a unique space, but we've tried to create it in such a way that it makes it super easy for the franchisee.

They come into the marketplace just like they would Amazon. They make a couple of clicks. They choose the tactics that they want to execute. There's an order form and order page. You get all the details that are then transferred over to the vendor. The vendor executes once it's paid for. There's a shopping cart experience and they pay for it. That's transitioned over to the vendor. The vendor executes and then pushes their information back to our platform.

The KPIs and the results of what they did are there for the franchisee to see at the end of the actual program. It's a unique space. Franchisees in their own right have, as any restaurant owner does, worn many hats. They're working on scheduling, placing orders, and managing the business. A lot of times the marketing components come last. They know that they need to drive sales. They know they need marketing, but they don't know what to do or how to do it.

A lot of times, brands in the marketing department will give them how-to's. They'll say, “Here's some how-to's on how to do this.” They don't help them do it. They can leave it up to the individual owner. A lot of times the owners just don't do it or they try it once and it didn't work, or what have you. What we've created is an opportunity for the franchisee to come directly in, place the orders, have them executed on their behalf, and then they get the results. It's hands-off from them and so they know that this is happening in their community. They don't have to spend time curating all the activities and managing all the activities that are done through the platform.

What I was thinking the most as you were talking about it is the idea of hitting the button and shopping, which we're all familiar with. I like how you mentioned Amazon experience because people are so comfortable doing that, but everything you talked about wasn't easy to do for operators historically. You have a vendor that makes calls or you can find a list of all the schools in your area and you can do that yourself. What you just hit on is that's overwhelming to want to get done, but it doesn't get done. It’s interesting to build that into a platform.

We talked briefly before we started. We have school-age kids and we didn't talk about my younger daughter. We talked about some of my older ones, but my youngest, they're doing stuff all the time fundraising locally with some businesses. I know that draws folks in. Let's live there for a second. Do you find those school ones on the fundraiser nights? There ends up being fundraiser nights. How are those working for folks?

Local Marketing

They were great. I think that's the type of advertising/marketing that is sticky. People who are in that space and that they're talking to are supporting their kids. They're working with those brands. That's resonating with where they are in their current state. That's important. You think about all the different layers of advertising from typical traditional media where you see TV, radio, or billboards to digital and the crowded space and digital to e-blast.

The hundreds of emails that you get in your inbox on a daily basis versus you going to support your child by participating in a fundraising night at a brand. That is super sticky and resonates well. Not only is that family connected to the brand, but there's an emotional connection. Marketers love these emotional connection types of ideas that have happened because of community engagement. LOMA is short for local marketing.

What we've decided to do is focus on this community-oriented space because of the huge opportunity we think there is. I think it's important to diversify what you're doing in that space. You're not putting all your eggs in one basket. Here's a great example. In our marketplace, let's say you're trying to drive your catering business. We have multiple vendors that can hit that B2B space in different ways.

We have a vendor in our marketplace that calls the business and talks to somebody. We've got a vendor in the marketplace that sends the HR director to GiftPak, where they hand out information to everyone in the company. We've got a vendor that sends emails directly to people working in the businesses. You can see the diversification that can happen based on the tactics to try to reinforce not only the brand awareness but also what the brand is trying to do.

That's through hitting people in their business through multiple ways. That's where we want this diversification in our marketplace to create more opportunities. A brand can come into the marketplace, not only can the franchisee come in and order directly, but a brand marketing team can come in and create plans for their locations. They can set up plans. Let's say they have bottom ten locations that are underperforming and they need certain tactics that they want to do.

They can set up plans for them. They can set up plans for their entire system. Let's say back to schools coming up and there's a vendor that sends these gift packs to schools. They can push that out to their entire system as what we call an opt-in where the franchisee can choose to opt into it. They simply pay for it by credit card through our platform and then it gets executed on their behalf. A system can diversify how they use the platform based on their needs.

One thing I particularly liked there that you talked about is if folks say, “What's one marketing that I can do that's going to change my traffic this week?” It's probably not one thing. You talked about a variety of ways to attract traffic. In this case, you gave the catering example. Not one solution is always going to work so hitting folks from multiple angles is great. Let's go to digital options. What is your platform or what do you suggest folks do locally and digitally? Again, there are an overwhelming number of options, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and Snap. Do you guys get involved in those? What's going on?

We do have some digital vendors inside of our platform. Nextdoor, for example, is pretty unique in what they do in the community. It fits inside of our strategy. We don't look at those social platforms as options inside of our marketplace. Typically, brands are managing those differently. They're managing those directly through agencies or they have resources that are managing them themselves.

It's a space that's tapped or checked off in their mind where this local marketing space, typically, when we're talking to brands, is something that they need to capitalize on. They say, “Yes, we want to play in the space. We just don't have the resources or the time. It's too much for us right now.” That seems to be a real niche that we're going after and trying to solve.

Let's go to Nextdoor for a second. If folks haven't heard of them, they may want to. I use Nextdoor, but only I would say there's a yard sale. There's chitter-chatter about traffic in this location. I do see businesses mention things. I see people make recommendations. What specifically have you seen restaurants do on Nextdoor?

It’s a lot of what you mentioned. Some back-and-forth recommendations are great. The ads are typically what we're looking at. We place ads inside Nextdoor. It gets that visibility of a different type of potential guest that's in a different type of headspace. They're going to Nextdoor to look for what happened to the neighbor's dog or something that was lost, and then they see your ad. It can break through because it's typically not where they would see a potential ad, and then the curating of the messaging and how that can continue. The way their ads are set up is unique. There are a lot of copies. You have a lot of opportunities to communicate something different versus just a typical type of social media ad.

If that's not on folks' radar, that's a good additional resource to put on the radar. Let me go to print for a second. The good old print, postcards in the mail, and things of that nature still happen. It almost flipped the other way where I look forward to going to my mailbox and what's in there. What are you seeing in the print space?

It has become very sophisticated. I agree. It's funny how a lot of times these media tactics become cyclical. Digital is where it used to be and where it is today, and local marketing is completely finding its way back and printing is in the same vein. There are different options within print. There are more cost-efficient options like shared mail where you can get mass circulation at a lower price point.

Typically, trying to create more just general awareness through that tactic versus going very direct based on some significant data that you may have or the brand may have and sending direct mails directly to those folks saying a specific message because they understand what that particular consumer might want to hear. That has some great redemption rates, and then there's the type of pieces too. There are all kinds of different substrates that are out there.

We work with a vendor called DynamiCard where they do a punch out for example. You can put that in your wallet. It looks like a gift card. You can put it in your wallet and save it for later. It come so far. There's a lot of data that you're getting on the backend as well. That's something that we push our vendors on our marketplace. We want to provide extra value to those who are placing orders.

If there's data, we have a section where we can drop that data into the plan that they've created so they can leverage that data in a variety of ways. For example, we have a vendor that makes phone calls to businesses or schools. They collect the data on who they talk to, what they say, and the notes from the conversation.

That can be a leg up. If I'm a franchise owner and I get that data, now I know that Beverly is ready to order in February, so I better follow up in February, or make that physical connection and let her know that I am the actual owner. There are a lot of opportunities that you can derive from collecting that data. We pull all that data in and we give it back to the franchisees.

In direct mail, there's data that they're collecting as well. It's not always just about redemption rates. It's about, “These were prospects. They've converted and now they're more loyal members.” They may go into your loyalty bucket or they become laps. You create more segmentation opportunities to be more efficient down the road. We're pushing our vendors to execute or perform, and then provide.

 

Loma pushes vendors to execute, perform, and provide to create more segmentation opportunities to be more efficient down the road because it's not always about redemption rates.

 

Two things that I could think to talk about. One, I was going to ask you a little bit about data and we didn't touch on loyalty. If you want to go there, please do. People used to say, “I've done marketing, but I don't know if it's working. I got more business, but I don't know where it's from.” How do you do some of that tracking? How can folks feel good about their spending? You can transition to the loyalty piece as well.

Tracking The Effectiveness Of The Marketing Campaign

That's a great question and something we have thought a lot about. As a marketer, you're continually challenged from that perspective, whether it's up from the franchisees and they're validating that it's worked on their level to any programs you're rolling out system-wide that you have to prove to the C-suite that these are working and we need to continue to spend here. What we've done in our platform is two things.

One, with each vendor, we've asked the vendor to provide key performing index benchmarks or KPI benchmarks. What do they consider to be a success based on understanding their product and knowing the type of product that's going to be in our marketplace? What happens is after the product is executed in the market, they pull those KPIs and put them into our admin section, which we then push back to the portal, so the franchisee or the marketing team can see the KPIs.

We then put a red, yellow, green next to it. Each tactic that we're executing, whether that is a part of the plan that the vendor is executing, has a KPI benchmark, what were the actual results, and did it get a red, yellow, or green? As a franchisee or a marketer, I can come into our plan section and I can see exactly what happened based on the tactics that were in the plan. I can see that, “In this location, these three tactics got green. I think I want to keep doing those because they seem to be outperforming benchmarks.”

That's one sort of dynamic that we've created. The other is that we have what we call an impact section on the platform where we connect to the point-of-sale data from the brand, and we pull that point-of-sale data into our platform. This impact section is almost like an analytics page where we're looking at sales, we're looking at transactions, and we're looking at tickets to see what's happening on a daily basis. As they're executing plans, what might the impact be? You can filter that page in a variety of different ways.

You can look at individual locations, you can map it against the entire system, you can look at location versus location, market versus market, however, you want to dissect that information. You can export all the data as well. You can use it in your PowerPoint presentations to your C-suite. You can dissect it. A lot of the brands we're working with are limited in resources. They are smaller brands. It might not have an analytics team. This becomes a powerful feature inside of our platform that helps them validate what they're doing, but also look at their business in general and be more strategic.

A lot of the stuff you're talking about there with pulling data together, giving reports, giving scorecards, and stuff have not historically been available for folks. Do you feel like historically in your travels and your work in the past the planning was not done enough? It's more like, “I hope people show up.” I call it hope marketing. “I hope people come this week.” Is this helping them get that planning piece done so that this happens? What do you think?

Making The Restaurant Marketing Planning Easy

Yes. That’s part of what we're trying to do too. We have another field marketer on my team. Her background is filled with more years of experience in field marketing. She's our customer service or customer experience representative and she does an amazing job. Some of the things that she's been doing is pushing out communications to the marketing teams and the franchisees that are our current clients, and giving them insight.

We just pushed one out for back-to-school, “Back to school is coming. It's time to start thinking about it. Here are the vendors in our marketplace that can help you with back-to-school. Here are some suggestive ideas based on the time of year and the calendar.” We continue to do those types of pushes just to get people thinking and planning. We also have a planning feature on our platform where marketing teams can go build out all their plans if they want to.

It's more important to understand the lead times it takes to do things. Making sure that we're ahead of the game and making sure that those critical times a year, especially from a local marketing and community marketing perspective aren't passing people by without the opportunity to either create a plan, push it out to their system, or execute the plans. You think of teachers' appreciation as a great one or nurses' appreciation. There are times a year that make a lot of sense for local store marketing, as well as the vendors that we have in our marketplace.

We're all guilty. We get caught with let's say St. Patrick's Day or Valentine's Day, “What do you mean that's next week? I forgot about it.” There are all these things I would have liked to have done but you got to do the sequence. You cannot pull it together in two days sometimes.

You cannot pull it together in two days. Now it's two clicks. That's the key for LOMA. It took so much longer to think about the time of year, then go talk to the vendor, plan it out, get creative, send it to the vendor, and work through the execution. What are the results? Now it's two clicks in our marketplace and you place the order. You don't have to think about it because it gets executed on your behalf, and the results are coming back in. You can see the results. It makes it so easy. That's the whole premise and thesis of LOMA.

I think you summed it up pretty well right there thinking about it. Anything else we didn't hit on as we wrap up? What do you think?

No. Overall, we're continuing to evolve in the marketplace. We work with brands to brands that may have vendors. They are already integrated into their system and we can add them to our marketplace. Again, it becomes this one-stop shop for the marketing team or franchisees who are used to ordering specific things. They can now order them in the marketplace focused on that brand. We're super excited. LOMA launched about a year ago and we were more focused on servicing.

While we were building the marketplace, we created plans for brands and then worked directly with vendors to execute a more service-oriented. We transitioned into this platform and launched it in late May, or early June and just have had some good responses from the brands that we were working with that have transitioned into the new platform as we've talking to brands as well. We feel it's revolutionary. We think that this is changing the way people will place orders in the local marketing space or marketers in general placing orders to execute traffic-driving initiatives. We're excited.

 

The Loma Platform is changing how people place orders in the local marketing space, or marketers, in general, placing orders to execute traffic-driving initiatives.

 

I’m glad to learn about it. Brett hit them with the website, social, and anywhere else they should go to learn about you guys.

LomaPlatform.com is our website. We are on LinkedIn as well. Book a demo button on our website, which will push your information. We'll call you and get something scheduled.

We hit a lot there. I appreciate it. Brett Campbell, co-founder and CMO at LOMA. You can find them on the web at LomaPlatform.com. For more great restaurant marketing operations services, and people in tech news, stay tuned to us here at RunningRestaurants.com. In the meantime, do me a favor, please hit a like button to subscribe to us. Give us a review and give us feedback wherever you are tuning in. That is very helpful and we appreciate that. Thank you so much. We'll see you next time. Thanks, Brett.

Thank you.

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The Bonus Questions

Brett, how did you get your start in the restaurant business?

I've always been in the restaurant business since high school. My first job was busing tables. Through college, I was in the restaurant business, managing a local cafe in Gainesville, Florida, and waiting tables, and the whole nine yards. Out of college, I started with Heavenly Ham, which was a multi-unit franchise system that was eventually purchased by Honey Baked Ham. Heavenly Ham was the Jack of all trades or the one-stop-shop go-to for the franchisees. They had a few of us in that role and we had territories. You learned about the supply chain, marketing, and operations. You learned everything, which was a great first gig. I always gravitated towards marketing. That kicked me off in the path of marketing to support multi-unit organizations.

What's the best piece of advice you've ever had?

Anytime you're going through a career change, which will happen multiple times for most people. I was told this in the early stages, and I completely agree with it and have used it throughout my career. There are three things you need to think about before a career change. Your professional, personal, and financial. Do all three of those things and check them off before you make a move. From a financial perspective, is it going in the right direction personally?

You go through different stages of life. From a personal perspective, does it check off or is your family willing to move or not? Things of that nature. Professionally, is it the right direction? Are you trying to move in the right direction or is it moving yourself forward? I've used that throughout my career and internally with my family whenever we're making a decision. They understand those are the three checkoffs as well. It's been pretty helpful.

What is a bad piece of advice or what's the worst advice you've gotten?

I think that you have to be at your desk to “work.” Working for people that want to see you in front of your computer at your desk. Especially now, the environment has changed completely, but there's a lot of work that's done from a communication perspective, face-to-face, especially in my industry where we're out in the field, working with individual locations and trying to drive brand success. That was one of the things that I've always struggled with, a 9 to 5, where you have to be technically in front of your desk to be considered working.

Let's go to quotes. What's a favorite quote or saying you love?

“In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.” I think anytime you have to look at what's going on and look at it through a different lens. Life is difficult and your career is difficult. There are going to be lots of difficult scenarios you're going to have to navigate through, but it's important not just to navigate through them but to look at the opportunity. What did you learn? What's next? How can you use that to grow? How can you use it to grow your team? Difficulty is one of those things you're never gonna get away from, so you can't shy away from it. I would say that the highs are highs, the lows can be lows, and the lows are lows, the highs can be highs. You have to go through both of those.

I love books. What is a book that you're reading now or what is one of your top book recommendations?

Probably from a recommendation perspective, I Said This, You Heard That. I think not only from a career perspective but from a personal perspective as well, depending upon its outlines. It goes through the typical, are you a red, yellow, green, blue personality? How do you speak to the different personalities? Communication is vital in your development, not only as an individual in your personal life but in your professional life. Understanding how to communicate, especially as a leader, is extremely important. We had a conversation about this with my wife and some friends. We were able to all recite our colors and why we are those colors. You know you're at a certain phase of life when you can do that.

What keeps you up at night?

As we talked about, I have teenagers. They keep me up. I have a 16-year-old, a 14-year-old, and a very new driver. He keeps me up at night. I think from a professional perspective, it's on a day-to-day basis. Certain things will pop into my head. I'm like, “Why am I even worried about this? This will work itself out.” There are other things that, you're so ingrained in your day-to-day in your business that I appreciate it when something pops into my brain at 4:00 in the morning. I have a pad of paper next to my bed so I can write it down or I put it on my phone. There's something there. There's a reason why your brain is thinking about that. Don't neglect it.

I love those random thought moments. If you don't write them down, you're like, “I'll remember that,” and then in the morning, it's like, “What was that?” Write it down or I'll send an email to myself and it spurs itself. I appreciate that. What is one of your biggest mistakes or lessons learned in life?

When I was a senior in high school, we moved from San Diego to Florida halfway through my senior year of high school. I was a big soccer player in high school and we moved right before the high school tryouts and then we were in Florida. I was new to the school and wanted to try out for the soccer team. I went to the first two tryouts. Unfortunately, as a stubborn 16-year-old at the time, if I wasn't going to play with my old team, I wasn't going to play at all. I never went back to the tryouts. I regret it to this day. I think I would have been successful on the team.

I think I would have made new friends that I probably could still have. I have a feeling of regret that I can't get away from that particular scenario. The word of advice there is to keep pushing through, even when you want to quit. There are a lot of times in life that you're going to want to quit. I've run a marathon before and I want to quit. You can't. You have to keep pushing through. Whether it's physical, mental, or personal, keep your head down. You will always look back knowing that you did what you could do with high regard versus the other way around.

That story resonates well. I appreciate that. A missed opportunity in life that you feel like you could have grabbed and it could have changed all sorts of directions. We all have those. Let's talk about the restaurant industry. Where do you see things? It's changing so rapidly. Where do you see the restaurant industry in 2 to 3 years?

I hope that the restaurant costs come down. Food costs are killing restaurants at this point. I hope there is a change there. I hope through technology and efficiency that costs can be reduced. If you think about our platform and what we do, we're providing more time based on leveraging a couple of clicks to create a marketing plan so that they can have more time to do other things, to focus and strategize to drive sales, whatever it might be to help. I would look at the reduction in costs, but then efficiency as well. The tools that can help restaurant owners get there are going to be crucial.

That’s 100% correct because the margins keep getting thinner. We have to find efficiencies. Otherwise, we're all going to be eating sandwiches at home.

The consumers are feeling it on the other side because prices have to go up. You're not experiencing the restaurant experience as much. As a consumer, you want them to be successful.

This one I like. I'm only giving you 60 seconds. I don't have a clock out, but it's keeping a mental path on it. You're in an elevator. You find out the guy behind you is a new restaurant operator. You have 60 seconds to give them advice on how to become a new prospective restaurant operator. What would you say?

I would say stay true to yourself. That resonates in a variety of different ways. It's so easy to diversify away from your original strategy. Your restaurant is unique because X, Y, and Z. Stay true to that. Don't succumb to this is the way everyone else is doing it or all of a sudden you're finding yourself down a path that becomes commonplace. You have to stay true to yourself.

I know we have these conversations at LOMA all the time. Our original intent with LOMA was to do X. We find ourselves talking about going down different paths and we always have to pull ourselves back. Stay true to yourself, stay true to your original strategy. Now, you're going to manipulate things on purpose, but as long as they're purposeful, I think you're good to go, but stay true to yourself and your true identity.

Thank you, Brett. I appreciate that. One last one here. What's one thing that not many folks know about you?

Let's see, my mother passed away about four years ago and my dad sent me her piano and I've been taking piano lessons for four years.

 

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